Episode 06 – SCSSRS – Stephen Richards of Taproot

0:07 Derek Oswald Hello, and welcome to the AltWire podcast. I'm your host, Derek Oswald. And today, I am thrilled to be joined by our special guest, Stephen Richards from Taproot. Taproot first rose to fame in the early two thousands with their hit single, Poem, and they have created incredible music ever since. Stephen is here to promote the band's upcoming album, SCISSRS, which will be their first album since two thousand and twelve's The Episodes. So sit back, relax, and get ready for another episode of the AltWire podcast. The AltWire podcast starts now. It's been quite a while since we last heard music from Taproot. I understand that these songs underwent quite a journey going back and forth between being for Taproot and then for a solo album and then back to Taproot. Could you walk us through the journey of the past twelve years and the road it took to get to this point? Yeah. Basically, when we were on tour for our last record, The Episodes, I started writing new material to be the next Taproot record.

1:09 Stephen Richards So that's kind of how all this started. But then we had some issues within the band, some turmoil, and then some health issues that were going on around us. So we took a little bit more time off than we wanted. And after my mom's passing away, I decided I needed something to really focus on and kind of get my head somewhere else, and so I decided to just go ahead and record the songs that I'd done demos for, wrote two or three more to add to it, and the plan was I was just gonna release it on my own, even though it was for Taproot, and Phil's the one that reminded me that they were for Taproot, not just me to release on my own. So he got behind me, and the guys, they started booking some shows, and it's kind of a go. We're doing like a full record release as Taproot, even though it's gonna sound as piss poor as I do.

1:56 Derek Oswald I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your mother. I remember listening to everything and thinking it was such a heartfelt song. Was that written about your experiences with her, or is that about somebody else?

2:07 Stephen Richards No. That's about her. There's a couple good songs that are around and for my mom, but that one was, yeah, more just like sharing the inside story of being a whiny little only child with a a great mom. And so it was just kind of an homage to her and just me complaining about myself like normal.

2:26 Derek Oswald Those health issues you mentioned were actually pretty serious. I know there was a lot of uncertainty about what was bringing that on back when you first spoke about it. Are you doing better now, and did you ever figure out what the cause of that was?

2:38 Stephen Richards I have been good for a minute, and it's been a few years since I had one, which is great. I'm on a lot of medicine. So I'd say it's probably been, like, four years since I've had one, which is great. I've had numerous. My first one was actually the day that the episodes was released back in 2012. So we had to cancel that CD opening show in Flint at the machine shop. So I felt bad for all our fans, but, yeah, that was a doozy. I ended up, in the hospital for a couple days on that one.

3:10 Derek Oswald In eleven years since the episode was released, the world has definitely become quite a bit different. Even though these tracks are, as you said, almost ten years old, how would you say that your writing process and you as a person have changed in those years? Oh, for quite a bit. I mean, obviously, most of the songs were written.

3:27 Stephen Richards I think it'll be interesting for the fans to kinda see and hear how Taproot songs actually sound when they start, because it's usually just me doing the demos. I'd play everything on my own, and that's what I ended up doing in the studio for this stuff. So that'll be interesting. But as far as writing, one of the songs I wrote was about my mother's passing, so I think that's a really important one that people, you know, even if they still have whoever, I think they'll the lyrics will really speak to them even, you know, if anyone's sick or anything. So I think that was pretty much where I went when it came to writing at that point in time. Obviously, far as being relevant these days, the only ironic thing I can say is that when I wrote this record, obviously, I wrote one or two Taproot songs, but at the time, think about this, at the time, bands like Tool, System of a Down, Deftones, all those guys weren't really doing anything, Slipknot even. So I tried writing a couple songs, and it's gonna sound like me either way, but I tried like, hey, how would I write an up tone song? How would I write a slipknot song? Like that type of thing. So since they weren't doing anything, I thought maybe I could kinda weasel my way in and kind of tap into a different different outlet of fans, but of course, they've all done stuff since then. So it… It'll come through. It's still the same idea, but most of it was already written as far as relevance now too. I think it's just whatever happens with us. You know, it's… If it's just a couple thousand fans that still love us, great. I think there's a couple songs that really have the chance to cross over certain types of media and reach a whole new audience, and I'm hoping that that can happen.

5:04 Derek Oswald You said that usually the way the writing process of these songs start is that you'll start working on them yourself, and then eventually they'll come to the band. Was it kind of a weird thing that for this Taproot record in particular that for the most part, this is all you? Did it feel strange when comparing it to other works?

5:19 Stephen Richards Honestly, not really. No. You know, the biggest difference was, you know, when other instruments were being recorded, I'd just be sitting there judging it. Yeah. I can double myself pretty well. It was just a bummer. Like, most of these songs, I didn't really have time to take off to do, like, proper vocals. So actually, most of the vocals on this record are my first take. They're basically scratch vocals. So I'm trying my best to treat them with modern technology to get them to be a little more, not five thirty in the morning scratch track, but, I mean, luckily, when it came to bass, I was okay, but luckily, I finished all my guitar, work before I had a accident where I broke my, or lost my funny bone. I had to move my funny bone to over my elbow. I still can't feel half of my hand or forearm. So luckily, had the guitars done because when I came back at the end to do some acoustic guitars and some guitar solos, I actually have a song with solos on it. Nice. I couldn't hold the pick. Like, the pick just kept falling out because I didn't have any strength or feeling. So that was kinda weird, but I roughed my way through it and took a while, but… So now there's some acoustics and a couple terrible, terrible solos. My CC DeVille impression.

6:32 Derek Oswald Do your doctors think that you're feeling in control of your hands are ever gonna come back, or you might have issues for that for the rest of your life?

6:41 Stephen Richards They're optimistic. I… I'm getting to be. I still can't feel my ring finger and pinky finger all the way through half my palm up to the elbow on my right hand, which is my strumming hand, not my other hand. But the doctors are… I don't know. The only way I can describe it is that I trust my strength in my hand. I think I'm just used to the not feeling that I trust my hand. So I'm pretty sure I can play guitar right now. I've got a couple months to try to learn how to play again.

7:11 Derek Oswald Now the naming scheme of this album is actually really creative. What's the inspiration behind the title and the slashes?

7:17 Stephen Richards Well, basically, I was just gonna still plan on if and when I do anything on my own, I'm just gonna go by SCISRS. It's kind of a dumb hockey thing, but we'd always have nicknames for each other growing up, you know, and everyone had something. And I wasn't SCISRS. I was just Richards because the coach would always yell at me for being stupid. But, I always use, like, initials, like my mom I called CLUBBER or CLOBER, depending on what mood she was in because those were her initials. And so mine are SSR, and my last name ends with an s, so it's kinda like scissors. Okay, cool. And then obviously, I'm just terrible sense of humor, so I decided to spell it a certain way. And it sucks. I actually at one point owned scissors.com, which I thought I could probably make a killing on if anyone ever wanted to make a creepy female site. But then when it came down to the scissors thing, and since it was kinda just me on my own, I I turned the I into a back slash, so that kinda works. Plus on my custom license plate, there weren't enough characters to put an I, so I just made the I slash. There you go. Right.

8:25 Derek Oswald Within the next few days, you'll be releasing best of b sides. Will the tracks included on that only be remastered versions of what was on b sides, or will there be additional previously unreleased material?

8:36 Stephen Richards I'm pretty sure it's just mastered versions of the more desired songs from the whole huge collection. So, I don't know, I honestly haven't even heard them. Like, all this stuff just came out of nowhere. I'm still working my job and kinda like, I just got back from the studio trying to fix up a couple things, so I haven't heard that stuff yet. And I I wanna see how good it is because a lot of those songs were literally just me in the basement at my old house and checking alone on, you know, four drum microphones, and so I wanna see what they can bring out of it, which is cool. But, also, as well, when you said I have, some pretty dumb sense of humor type of things with… It's actually called Besides. It's because the… You know, it's the song that, you know, just kinda went, besides, they didn't they didn't make the cut. So besides them, it's a good record.

9:29 Derek Oswald And now it's a record. I mean, I don't know if you were the one who wrote the descriptions your merch website, but if it was, I can see your sense of humor there because with the promo for best of b sides, you said this was a gift, and then in parentheses, it said, see what I did there. So I'm assuming that was you who probably wrote that because there was a bit of a pun. Yeah. I'm full of those for sure.

9:50 Stephen Richards And it's it's never ending. I I can't get enough of myself. That's why I have no friends.

9:56 Derek Oswald I am myself. Thinking back over the massive amount of material you made over the years, what is one song in retrospect that maybe you wish could have made an album instead of being a b side or even a song that was previously unreleased that you wish the fans could have heard at the time it was made? Well,

10:12 Stephen Richards that's an easy one. It kinda exists. It's on the Besides. It's a song. Unfortunately, now with everything catching up, it's named Kevin Spacey, of all things, and so it's just a bummer because the the only version we have of that is us just jamming it live to a click track when we were rehearsing the song, but we actually did record the entire track with Welcome, so we had the quality sounding one. We just… I don't think we have access to it somehow or know how to get it from Atlantic, I guess. That was the one that Lane Staley was gonna be at. Toby, our producer Toby Wright, I were two days away from flying up to Olympia, where Lane was living, and he had a studio there, and Toby was just gonna throw him in the booth and say, go. And so that's when we found out that he had passed or he was found. Not that it's a cool thing, but it's like odd to know that, you know, when you're heroes, the only CD that he had in his apartment when they found him was, Taproot, a CD laying there named Taproot, so his mom called Toby and asked who Taproot was, and he was like, oh, that's who I'm working with. So that would have been really cool, and then after that, I just didn't even, it's a really good song, I just didn't even really want to write anything for it. To me, that was like Lane's song, even if he didn't like it or even do anything on it at all, that was kind of like the hopes and the dream of that song, and once that wasn't fulfilled, we tried having another guest come in, and it was just like, nah, not at all. Didn't work. So that's on the besides. It's not the studio version, but I think just for fun, we'll probably be playing that live around this time because then I can add an extra song. Don't I sing on it, so it'll be a nice little breather for me.

11:56 Derek Oswald Alice in Chains was probably thinking back, if not Stone Temple Pilots, probably Alice in Chains was one of the first rock bands I was ever into when I was growing up with my dad. And to me, it was kinda interesting. You know? It was Alice in Chains, Stone Temple Pilots, Lincoln Park, and Taproot. And what was so cool for me, you know, as a fan of Lincoln Park and Taproot, and this is a good segue into that, is that back in 2002, you featured on a remix of their track Pushing Me Away. For many people who love reanimation, that remix is a standout on the CD. It's one of the better remixes. So how did that collaboration come about, and what do you remember from working and recording on that track? And how well did you get to know Chester during that time? We actually knew Lincoln Park before they were even called Lincoln Park. Our day to day manager,

12:46 Stephen Richards Mark Wakefield, he actually used to be Chester before Chester was in the band. So our manager used to be the singer. He wanted to go the management route, which was cool, and then luckily for Lincoln Park, they found Chester because obviously that worked out tremendous to them. But no, a lot of people don't even realize that Lincoln Park used to open for us. Like, we knew those guys as friends before they even, you know, we knew them working while they were working on their stuff, and we just saw like, oh god, these guys are gonna be huge. And sure as crap, even though after they open for us, then next thing you know, we're opening for them. And knowingly so, I totally understand, but I mean, you know, they're great dudes, a great band, and when it came to tracking that song, it was kinda weird. Shenoda just, you know, sent me an email and he was like, hey, check this track out, see if there's anything you'd like to do, just do what you do, you know, because they were fans of ours as well. So I was like, okay, cool. Well, I like doing three part harmonies and, you know, tend to write some lyrics that people like. So I did my three part harmonies, my whining sound, nasal, crappy vocals, and then, the the coolest thing to know about that song too afterwards is that when it came to, you know, there were all those songs that were done remastered and remixed, that was the only version from that album that they turned to live. They didn't play song original version, they played My. And so the one time we went out to go see them, they were out with, god, who were they out with? I can never remember their name, but they… They'd always have the opening band's vocalist come out and do my part, and so I only… I got to do it one time. We were in Salt Lake City playing day after them, so we went to that show, and I hadn't heard that song in so long. I was just in their dressing room over and over and over and over again until it was time to go out on stage, and so that was really cool. I got to sing with Chester and Mike, so that was a, you know, big arena and two great guys, two great vocalists, and, yeah, sad about Chester too. I wanna go back to what you said before about Lain Staley. You know, you have some heroes that, you know, you grew up and identified with. Who would you say is some of your vocal and musical influences? Well, the whole, when we were talking about Alice in Chains, Dirt was actually the record I taught myself how to play guitar too. So to me, that record, like, anytime I listen to music, it's always drums first. I'm a drummer since the age of four. So anytime I hear a song, it's drums. And then the next thing I hear is guitar. So I taught myself guitar to dirt. And then when it came to like vocalists and stuff, it didn't occur to me what Lane was going through. And there's another thing about this new record, this is one of the most important songs to me, it's called favorite song, and the lyrics are literally about not knowing the lyrics to your favorite song, but you still sing along. And so even though Dirt's one of my favorite records and Lane's one of my favorite singers, I literally wouldn't be able to sing, you know, a quarter of the songs correctly. I just kinda make up words, and so I think a lot of people relate to that. But, growing up, like when I was a little kid, I used to be into like Duran Duran and stuff, but when it comes to vocals, I always loved, you know, the heavier stuff. I was a huge Pantera fan, so that's kinda who I wanted to scream. I like Mike Patton because he's just such a goofball. He can sing great when he wants to, but he just likes to have more fun, and that's kinda what I do. Singing is second nature to energy and bad jokes live, but, and then obviously Lane. And when I go back to Dirt, like, again, it was mostly just teaching myself guitar. I had no idea how powerful those lyrics were and, you know, kinda how near the end he already was, and that was a long time ago. So that was, like, more in retrospect as I'm, you know, I'm just kinda singing along. I'm like, oh, jeez. Like, I didn't know that whole record was just about, you know, basically dying or being on drugs.

17:10 Derek Oswald At this point in your career, what would you say have been some of the hardest moments as an artist, and what have also been some of the happiest?

17:17 Stephen Richards It comes down… Like, I think the hardest moments were preparing for Blue Sky Research. That's a real… Like, half the reason we have the… Besides record, it was like, what is it, 80 songs or something? More than that maybe. I know it's eight discs, so it it took a lot of writing. We went through three producers, we ended up going back to Toby, but yeah, it was cool. I got to work with, you know, we all got to work with Billy Corgan for five days in Chicago, so that was really cool. I got to work with Nick Hexham at his house, which was really cool, big three eleven fan. So we got to work with those guys, Jonah from Farr, he's the one that helped contribute to calling. So that record was mostly just a pain in the butt. I think that's like the most negative side, was just how hard that was, because when it comes down to it, I mean, we were lucky enough to just get to play music for quite a while and make a living, and that was great. So I mean, that's part of the upside, you know, when we were first starting out, obviously touring with Papa Roach, that was their very first tour, we were together. That's a whole new experience, the first time we're on the road on tour, you know, proper, and that was great. But then how can you be doing Oswald Fest your first year, as well as touring with Deftones and Lincoln Park in Europe and Canada and here. So that's What a lineup. Yeah. I always kinda kind of truly joke about how, man, we had a great start, but then it just all went, because he can't beat can't beat Oswald or Duff Tones in Lincoln Park. I mean, where where do you go after that?

18:52 Derek Oswald You probably got a better reception at Oswald than Lincoln Park did. Sharon Osbourne infamously only had Lincoln Park on there to appeal to the woman in her words. And, unfortunately, when they were on there in 2001 on some of the shows, they actually had bottles thrown at them. So Oh. Yeah. Hopefully, that didn't happen to you guys.

19:13 Stephen Richards Know, did you ever… Were you ever modeled on stage that you can remember? No. But my dumbass one time, they were doing the, like, cassette promo tapes kinda, you know, like street team style. And I don't know why I did it, but we were on the main stage at Oswald's Fest, and I just encouraged people to throw the tapes at us just so we could, like, play and try avoiding them. But then people started throwing rocks too, like, so I I caused the problem and our tour manager got smoked in the head, and he was like, you know, he cussed me out pretty good. I felt miserable for like a week. He got cut pretty good. But… Yeah. So we've had tapes and rocks thrown at us, but that's because I requested it. No tomatoes or, you know, not even really booze. You don't like us, they just kinda go. You know, and actually, it's a good segue to one of my favorite questions to ask. Like, every time I ask an artist this, I always get something hilarious.

20:06 Derek Oswald What is the funniest memory that you have in your career? Whether it's touring or, you know, hanging out with the guys? What is the funniest memory you have? Funniest. Gotta… The first things popping in are kinda gross.

20:21 Stephen Richards That's okay. I've gotten some gross answers before. I've had skittles and buttholes before. So… Well, yeah. Well, let's just say there was a a female on one of the tour buses that could write her signature with her hand and then put the Sharpie in one of her other orifices, not her mouth, and she could duplicate her autograph exactly correct, both with her hand and I'm not even sure if it was the butt or the front, probably the butt. It's tight enough, but perfect handwriting. So that was one of the weirdest moments for sure. I don't know, we've had a lot of funny moments, maybe the time, we knew Mudbain was in a hotel room partaking in things that they shouldn't, so Jared and I decided to run up to the door in the window simultaneously and just start pounding saying FBI, FBI, and so we heard a lot of toilet flushing, toilet flushing, and then, you know, they came out and it was just me and Jared, and we're like, oh, sorry. Wasted a lot of money.

21:18 Derek Oswald Were probably a little pissed off at you, I imagine.

21:21 Stephen Richards Yeah. But they they overtook our tour bus when they their RV broke down on our first tour bus. So we let them stay with us, but they kinda overtook it. So we were kinda like, alright. Let's get them back. There's another band that's making a good go around right now. I'm happy for them.

21:35 Derek Oswald I read an article the other day that literally said that nu metal is at the most popular point that it's been in nearly twenty years. How do you feel about a genre that was so huge when you first started coincidentally making a comeback around the time where you guys decide to return?

21:52 Stephen Richards It is kinda odd, and that wasn't even like the plan. It was just kind of a thing that we noticed was going on around us too. And that's the thing too that I heard Phil bring up the other day that kinda was interesting too, is that it's crazy that we we all fit into the term nu metal, which I don't mind. I totally get, you know, but then we all kinda went all different ways kinda. So it's actually kinda cool to think about the term nu metal being like a time frame more so than just a genre because, you know, a lot of us have changed and are different, but it is a lot of the same bands from that time. So it's just kinda cool to think of like that. And I guess it's technically we're nowhere near as good, but you could technically call us classic rock at this point. We're so old. So I guess it's just that time to go around kinda like the women's clothing or whatever clothing, you know, seems to go around. Like, now the high pants are coming back with the high shirts and all that. I don't know. So I can… I know they say fashion goes in cycles and makes it all the way around, and so I guess it's time for fans like us to to get out there and perform for people, see our friends, and see how many people don't mosh anymore.

23:04 Derek Oswald I was joking around with my fiance about this. I have no room to talk because I'm only a few years away from 40, so it's not like it's not like I'm up there in age, so to speak. But I told her that I'm waiting for the time when, you know, bands like Mud Vein, Taproot, Lincoln Park become like Nirvana, where there's a teenager wearing a t shirt, and they don't even know what the music is. They just think it looks cool. You know, I'm gonna feel really old when I start seeing those those shirts, like, in Walmart and stuff like that. I'm gonna be like, I was like, are you fucking kidding me? That's great. No. That's great. I love it. No. It's it's true. I mean, at the,

23:41 Stephen Richards when we were nearing the end of our last touring run, it was kinda funny. We'd be playing shows and people would… Like, kids would come up and be like, yeah, my uncle got me into you guys. And it's like, oh, right. So your uncle… Okay. Well, that makes sense. And then, you know, we're pretty much expecting,

23:58 Derek Oswald you know, stuff about my my grandma got me into you guys at this point. It's like I'm I'm part of a fan community for that type of music, and someone came in and said, you know, I I didn't listen to Linkin Park while Chester was alive, but I discovered their music now, and it's really cool. I was and I was like, oh, yeah. How old are you? And they're like, oh, I'm 15. And I'm like, I was 16 years old when Hybrid Theory came out. Yeah. Yeah. I feel old as dirt at this point because of that.

24:25 Stephen Richards Yeah. I understand. I got you beat by six, though. So I'm more than halfway dead.

24:31 Derek Oswald I'm not gonna make it to 90. I guarantee that. I don't even wanna guess how old I'm gonna be when I croak. I'm I'm just just gonna live life to the fullest and just hope for the best, basically.

24:41 Stephen Richards That's the best way to do it. Good on you. Exactly.

24:44 Derek Oswald So just to wrap up, what are you most excited about for the future with Taproot, and what would you like to say to your fans that have stuck with you for all this time?

24:53 Stephen Richards It's really cool what's going on. You know? I was just kinda, for the last six years, just spending as much time as I could doing everything, and now it's turned into, a whole shebang that people got behind. Playing the shows are gonna be amazing. We went from just booking one festival show, then we're like, alright, well, let's do a CD release show. The next thing you know, we're just… I think we have, like, 19 shows booked for the end of this year. So it went from nothing into something or something more than nothing, I guess. And I don't know. The whole thing's exciting just overall, and you and the guys kinda be excited. We've got a new guitarist that's gonna be joining us, Taylor Roberts. He's from a band called, Riding with Killers, who's really cool too. It's kinda cool having a really good guitarist coming into the lineup who's, like, enjoying learning how to play this stuff, and I still gotta double check, make sure he's doing the right parts. Yeah. But I still gotta relearn, like, 30 songs too, because we don't wanna play the same set every night. So that's fun too. Once I get the record done, that'll be fun too. It's close. I just gotta have it mastered, and it's another thing. I'm running out of time, like I don't have much free time. So when that's done, that'll be exciting. Tour, shows, and then it comes down to the fans, like you said. I still cringe to the day thinking about it, but I did a fundraiser just because Tim let me use the studio for so long and I needed stuff like even this crappy computer. I didn't have anything, like, at all. So I did a fundraiser, and it's humiliating, but a lot of people supported me through that, and that means a lot to me. That means everything because I got to do this. And then I know, obviously, there's fans that'll be like, oh, crap. Taproot's back or, you know, oh, sweet, Taproot's coming live, and those are… Like I joked earlier that I don't really have many friends, I don't really have many friends, and it's always cool to get out there and meet people that you can relate to, cause they're more than happy to share similar stories to what I've gone through, and that's a connection to people that isn't just a thank you. That's like soul changing, and that's what I enjoy doing with our fans.

26:59 Derek Oswald And I actually just thought about one more thing I need to ask because Taproot fans will shoot me if I don't ask this. So obviously, it took about eleven years. Once the dust has settled with this, do you wish to continue on on a regular pace with Taproot?

27:15 Stephen Richards Or will it still be maybe every five to ten years you release something? No. I could see it continuing depending. It's just the whole, you know, we… We're doing the weekend warrior thing. We can't get away. We turned a pretty notable tour that's going around down, just the offer wasn't very good, worthwhile. So we've all got day jobs, kids, families, all that stuff. A lot of bands can get away with it touring, but we'll see how these shows go as far as, you know, if they provide income, I'm gonna quit my job and hope to God I at least make enough money to survive.

27:46 Derek Oswald I don't know. We'll we'll see how it goes. Well, hey. I do wanna thank you for joining me today. You know, I've said to many people I feel like you guys should be a lot more successful than you are because you have fantastic music. Well, thank you. I hope your health issues continue to improve, and I appreciate you joining me today.

28:02 Stephen Richards Oh, I appreciate it. Thank you for having me. It's good to see you. Good to see you as well.

28:13 Derek Oswald And that brings us to the end of this episode. I'd like to thank Stephen for joining us today and for being such an incredible guest. Please be sure to listen to Taproot's upcoming album SCISRS when it releases this fall, and stay tuned to their socials for all the tour dates as they become available. Additionally, if you enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to follow us and leave a positive review on Apple Podcast. I'm Derek Oswald, and this has been another great episode of the AltWire podcast. Thanks for listening.