Episode 05 – In The Valley of The Mountains – Jason Singer aka Michigander

0:03 Speaker 1 Hello, and thank you for listening to the AltWire podcast. I'm your host, Derek Oswald, and in this week's episode, we're joined by multi instrumentalist, Singer. Jason, better known as Michigander, been performing since 2014 and just recently released his new EP, It'll Never Be The Same. Join us as we discuss a slew of topics including his new EP, his experiences during the pandemic, his influences, and a whole lot more. So buckle up and get ready for another episode of the AltWire podcast. The AltWire podcast starts now.

0:49 Speaker 2 Thank you for joining us today, Jason. How are doing today? Doing great. How are you? I'm doing pretty good. I'm actually excited to finally get a chance to hear your EP. I understand that it was supposed to be released last year, but an unfortunate mishap happened on the set of one of your music videos. Yeah.

1:09 Speaker 3 Could you kinda give us a backstory on what happened with that? Totally. I was shooting a music video in a place called the Angela's Crest, which is in the mountains outside of Los Angeles, little north of Pasadena. And, everything was going great. Very funny music video in progress. A lot of good laughs, a lot of good times. But then I walked a little bit of ways, and I slipped on some brush, and I fell. And I thought I rolled my ankle, but turns out I broke my leg in three places. Ouch. So I had to be… Yeah. No cell service. So somebody had to go get the rangers, and they rescued me from the valley of the mountains, which maybe will be an album title one day. And they trucked me to an ambulance, and then I went to the hospital, and I was stuck on California for a week. And the best part about all of this is it was really affordable and cheap. Just kidding. It was not. The video guy's like, can I film this? He said, please film this. Like, we need we need to do something because I don't wanna reshoot this at all. So they ended up taking me in, and it was a terrible time. But, yeah, we're alive to talk about it, and I think more people found out about my band because of it. So that's the bright side.

2:20 Speaker 2 How's your leg feeling? Is it fully healed at this point, or is it still a little sore?

2:24 Speaker 3 Mostly most… I would say, like, 95%. It's a little stiff, a little sore sometimes, but overall, feeling pretty good. Can't complain too much. Yeah. I don't know. Feels pretty great.

2:36 Speaker 2 With this release coming up, although we're still in the pandemic, we're starting to resume life a little bit, you know, as normal, quote unquote. Yeah. However, as your EP says, it will never be the same. How do you feel that the world and even your life has changed since the pandemic happened in 2020?

2:55 Speaker 3 Yeah. I think everything is different, and I don't think things are gonna be… I think… I mean, the whole sentiment of the record is that, like, honoring your past but figuring out new ways to be a better human being. And I think as a society, we are all trying to figure out how to, quote, build back better or figure out, like, what we're trying to do in this age. You know? It's like a crazy world we live in still. And I think I think the pandemic just kind of amplified a lot of the terrible things and kind of brought out a lot of the problems and to light in that we had in the world. And so now it's, trying to figure out, like, how do we, as society and as a world, how do we get better at what we do? And how do we… Like, how do we become better human beings without, like, completely abandoning who we are at our roots and our core. And so, like, socially, we're different. Politically, we're different. Geographically, like, the world is literally changing, and things are weird and scary sometimes, but just kind of… Like, the whole… Like, the album cover is like an old abandoned mall, you know, because there's not gonna be malls in the future, unfortunately. I love the mall. I love going to get a piece of pizza from Sbarro's. Yes. But there's not a lot of malls left. And there are a couple of… You know, there's a couple malls, but overall, the malls are kinda dying out, except Mall of America and Opry Mills, which is the Grand Old Opry here in Nashville. But for the most part, I can't think of a lot of great malls. That was a very long answer, but I hope that gave you some insight as where I'm coming from. Exactly.

4:30 Speaker 2 And now you look and half these malls are already closing down. There's a mall that was called the fairground square mall near here that they actually demolished, and the only thing that they kept was a boss cubs and a movie theater, and everything else was gone.

4:43 Speaker 3 And it's just really sad to see. I mean, I understand online shopping is the way it is, but I'm a nostalgic nineties kid, and I kinda miss that sometimes. Yeah. The mall was pretty cool. It was like the… Where you learned how to be social. And at least when I was a kid, like, my mom would just drop me off at the mall. And I would hang out there for hours and just get a soda and walk around. Never buy anything, but, you know, do the thing.

5:05 Speaker 2 Now when you got your pizza from Sbarro, was it a plain pizza, or did you get some toppings on it? You know, I actually could never afford Sbarro. Was just Taco Bell.

5:14 Speaker 3 I was just giving you my dream scenario.

5:17 Speaker 2 Well, I mean, even Taco Bell, it's still relatively cheap compared to some fast food companies. But I remember when Taco Bell was $3 for an entire meal, and now you get $3 for just a burrito.

5:28 Speaker 3 Yeah. It's crazy. I remember… Yeah. It used to be… They used to have the 89¢ menu or something. Yes. Yes. That was a that was a big win for me. You know, I just get the change out of my mom's cup holder in the minivan and buy myself a chicken burrito.

5:43 Speaker 2 Now life has brought you on quite an interesting journey. You actually grew up in Michigan before moving to Nashville. Mhmm. What was it like to pack up and leave the life you knew behind?

5:52 Speaker 3 Yeah. Good question. So as a whole, Michigan just felt like home. You know, there was… Midland is where I kinda grew up. And then I lived in Kalamazoo for a little while, and I lived in Detroit for a little bit before I moved down here to Nashville. And, you know, I lived there for twenty nine years or whatever my whole life, which is wild to think about. And, you know, at the same time, you know, I spend a lot of time in a van traveling and being on the road, and that has kind of, like, made probably my move a little less jarring in a way because I've been to Nashville so many times, and I've been all over the country so many times in, like, every city every city is just kind of, like, you know, it's a city, been everywhere. And it does get a little old sometimes, but, you know, like, it doesn't feel this jarring to move to another state. I still see my family a good amount, and I'm in Michigan a good amount. But I… You know, like, overall, I think it's been very positive for my career and for, like, how I do my music and how I create. There's so many people here doing it, and there's so many people here that are much, much better than me, which is really cool to be around and and very inspiring and keeps you on your toes. What was your draw to Nashville as compared to other cities? Was there other places you considered before moving there? You know, I never really thought I was gonna move out of Michigan. And… But I came down here a good amount, and eventually, I met my now wife who is one of the main reasons why I moved because she lived here. And so we kinda dated long distance for about two years. Once I got to, like, be here and be integrated in things, it just kinda made sense. You know? I didn't really think I was gonna move anywhere else besides Michigan. Never really knew what city in Michigan I was gonna, like, end up in. But it was very cool for me to, like, find a new place and kinda have my eyes open to, like, this whole new group of people and a whole new city and a whole new culture, which sometimes has its downsides here in Tennessee. But overall, pretty cool. Cool music scene, lot of good people, making good tunes. I don't know if that's happening at at the scale that's happening anywhere else in the country, maybe Los Angeles, but here it's a little nicer and a little more affordable.

8:04 Speaker 2 Speaking of cool music scenes, you actually just reminded me of something. You just recently performed at South by Southwest, which is a dream for, you know, any indie artist to be there, not only to attend it, but to actually be on one of the stages. What was it like to be part of such a well known festival?

8:21 Speaker 3 Yeah. It's a pretty interesting thing. It's kind of like its own thing. My bass player, my band had never been, and I think he thought it was gonna be, like, a legitimate, like, Lollapalooza's type festival. But it's really just… For people who don't know, it's really this thing where it's just like you're playing two to four shows a day, and it's kind of a a mess, madhouse, you know, trying to load in. You can't park by anything. You just have to rush gear down streets and find parking. It's it's a kind of a nightmare. But you get to play these really cool shows in front of people who work in the music business, in the tech world, in the film world. And so there's all these people who can, like, help you with your career and help you get your music in front of more people. And so I feel like that is really… I mean, it's a pretty no brainer to try to do it. And when you do it, you get to meet a lot of cool people. And and the cool thing is you meet a lot of bands who are, like, kinda, like, similar level as you. So you kinda can see what, like, other artists are doing, and you make new friends. And it was it was just a good time.

9:55 Speaker 2 You actually have said on occasion that Manchester Orchestra has been an influence that you've been lucky to share the stage with. What was it like to be seen and accepted by artists that you looked up to? It's crazy.

10:07 Speaker 3 You know? Us… Them especially. Like, they're a band who I attribute some of the reasoning why I do this in the first place. You know? I wouldn't be… I probably wouldn't be doing this, like, the way I do it if I didn't… Wasn't aware of their music and listened to it when I was starting early on. So that being said, getting to, like, go and write a song with them, record a song with them, and, like, release a song with them, and then tour with them, they're just great people and great examples of what… They're great examples of what you… Of how to treat other people. They're so humble and so kind and so giving and generous, and it kinda makes me like, I want to be like that. I wanna be like that one day. You know? I wanna be like when I get to a point where I can help a younger band who maybe looks up to me, god forbid, maybe when that when that happens one day, maybe I can, like, help that band in a way. That's what I'm kinda hoping to, you know, pay it forward in a way.

11:03 Speaker 2 Does the thought of an artist looking up to you and drawing inspiration from you scare you, or does it drive you to be an even better musician?

11:11 Speaker 3 It doesn't change how I want… How I wanna operate. It changed how I maybe wanna treat people. Not that I, like, treat… I don't try to treat people any bad. But, you know, there are a lot of times where… And I'm… And I used to be in the… On the other side of this where I would message bands who I, like, thought where I looked up to or dug their music and try to, like, become friends with them. And sometimes now that that's… And I'm on the other side of it and where these artists are messaging me, and it's kind of hard to keep up. And I feel bad because I, you know, I have a whole life, and it's hard for me to, like, it's hard for me to, like, be buddy buddy with everybody as much as I want to be and, like, I'm… Much as I wanna respect people and show respect to them and honor their message and try to listen to their music. It's hard to do that. It's hard to find the time to keep up with that, and let alone, like, remember everybody. It's It's just very hard.

12:03 Speaker 2 When I'm looking through your discography, your album titles, they seem to share themes of reflection, introspection, and perception. How do those themes fit into your songwriting?

12:13 Speaker 3 I just try to be honest, and I'm trying to be even more honest as I continue, and I'm trying to, like, be very upfront with how I'm feeling and where I'm at in the moment where these songs are going. Like, not all these songs maybe attribute to the album title. The album title most of the time… I've never analyzed this, so excuse me while I figure it out. So… No. The album titles typically are like a summary of how I'm feeling about the world at the time making the songs. And so the songs don't necessarily always line up with the vision of the title, but the title, you know, like, that's what I'm going through at the time. So, like, the first record is… The first EP is called Midland. It's where I'm from, where I'm like… It's my genesis. You know? Like, that's the vibe. You know? And then the second record is where do we go from here? And that's me saying, like, I don't know what to do next because I've done all this stuff by myself, and I've worked really hard, and I don't know where we go from here. And then got a record deal after that, and, that… Like, you know, like, the minute I, like, kinda just gave up and, like, let it go over is, like, when things took off. And then everything will be okay. Eventually, it's about, like, the pandemic. Like, the world is gonna be fine eventually. There And was, like, a thing I was texting my friends. Like, I've… I, like, searched it, and, like, you can see the first time I texted that to somebody. And now this record is, like, about post pandemic, post Trump, post, like, all these other stuff, and it's like, we're not gonna be the same. But it's also a a pretty reflective of my life. You know? Like, I came up with the title before the record was done. And so now I'm, like, just kind of, you know, like, what's next? Now that I've done four EPs, like, that's a cycle. Like, that's it. This is the last EP that I'm gonna make tentatively. My next thing is my debut album, which I haven't had a chance to make yet, which is… If I would have told you that ten years ago, I would… There's no way I would have believed that. Like, I haven't done that yet. But now I'm at the first time in life where I feel like I can make a full length record that will stand up and hopefully be pretty solid.

14:18 Speaker 2 Have you given any thought to where you'd like to be with your debut album? Have you thought of any changes in sound, or would you expect it to be continuation

14:26 Speaker 3 of where you are now? I'm already working on it. I have the bookends done. I have the top song done. I have the last song done. I have the middle song. And now it's just kind of filling in filling in the cracks. And it's kind of a culmination of everything that I've done so far, but it's seen through the lens of where I'm at right now. Yeah. That that was pretty well said. Think I'm gonna write that down and use that for future interviews. But, yeah, it's a it's a pretty… I'm really excited about it. I'm trying to be… I'm trying to, like, it's really hard to say stuff a little bit maybe about current events, and it's really hard to be… Like, have a voice. And so a lot of times, I think artists think it's easier just to ride the fence versus take sides, but I also think that's pretty lazy. So I'm trying to figure out a way to, in an artistically driven and sound way, say something that makes sense, you know, and something that I actually believe and care about because I could just write these pop songs that don't mean anything or aren't… You know? I have a pretty selfish job. I think I get to make music and have people see me at shows, which is really cool. And I do… I really do think it's selfish. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not a rock star, but I'm a musician. I'm just like this guy who plays music and people care. And then, like, I get to just talk to people about it all day. It's kinda narcissistic in a way, but, like, it's kinda cool. So I'm kind of… I'm trying to just figure that whole thing out. And… But I wanna make sure whatever I do with this debut record is, like, a statement in a way that doesn't sound trite or bony, and it makes sense.

16:06 Speaker 2 You've begun writing with co writers for the first time in your career. How would you say that your creative process has changed or evolved since you've begun working with co writer? Yeah. So most of this EP was done with other people.

16:18 Speaker 3 And really interesting because I learned so much at what I like, and I learned how to be better. Like, I'm working with Sean McConnell. He taught me how to, like… He taught me how to trim it up, you know, and edit myself, which is, like, the hardest thing for, I think, for any musician and artist to do is learning how to edit themselves. Like, the minute you see a band who's making 30 track records and then all a sudden they make a 12 track record, you go, oh, they learn to edit themselves. I bet you that's pretty good. And I wanna make sure that I can get to that point where I'm not… I wanted, like… I want the details to shine through, and I don't want it to be clouded with a bunch of other stuff. And I think that even… That sentiment even shines through on the production side of things too. Like, I feel like working with Tony Hoffer in Los Angeles, we really spent time cutting the fat and building on things and caring about each little thing. Like, if we're gonna dial in a synth tone for thirty minutes, let's make sure you people can hear that. Like, let's not bury it with eight guitars. You know? That's kinda something I've always done in the past, which is… I mean, it's worked. I just love building a bunch of guitars on top of each other. And maybe I'll go back to that, you know, who knows? But for now, I just, you know, I wanna say what I need to say and and not overdo it. It's a privilege to speak to someone who hasn't released a debut album yet. A lot of times in this profession, we're speaking to artists that are already established

17:42 Speaker 2 that have already released a few albums under their belt. So it's exciting to get to talk to someone as they're discovering themselves and who they are through their musical journey. So with your debut album to come eventually, what are you looking forward to in the future, and what are you most excited to see happen in your career?

18:00 Speaker 3 Really, you know, I always… I think probably it was 2017 I released, like, a song called Fears. It's my first, like, professionally recorded song. And I think at that point, said to myself, I'm good. You know, everything I've made, I'm good. This is good enough. I like anything on top of this. Anything that happens from now on is just extra. I'm content with where I'm at, and I'm trying to keep that mentality. Everything I've gotten to do, I'm so wildly lucky to have gotten to do it. Getting to play Lollapalooza, getting to go on tour with some of my favorite bands, play venues I never dreamed of playing. And so I'm at a point now where I'm just so… Like, if it all ended today, I would be so happy. I mean, I wouldn't be, like, stoked that my… I don't get to do this, but I would look back and be like, I put the time in, and I worked hard for this to get where I'm at. And I… There's, like, no regrets. You know?

18:54 Speaker 2 Well said. Well said. Well, I wanna thank you for joining us today. It's been a pleasure speaking to you today, Jason. Thanks, Derek. Looking forward to hearing your new EP when it comes out later this month, and I hope you have a great day. Thanks, man. I really appreciate it. Thanks thanks for chatting.

19:09 Speaker 1 And that brings us to the end of this episode. I wanna thank Jason for joining us today and for being such an incredible guest. Please be sure to check out Michigander's latest EP, It'll Never Be The Same, available now on all streaming services. If you like what you heard, please be sure to follow AltWire podcast on Apple Music and Spotify, and stay tuned for more interviews with your favorite artist. My name is Derek Oswald, and this has been another episode of the AltWire podcast. Thanks for listening.