Episode 17 – Perseverance, Faith, and Fire: Matisyahu on His Latest EP and Life Journey

[Derek Oswald] (0:05 – 0:51)
Welcome to the AltWire Podcast, your go-to source for in-depth conversations with the brightest stars in music. I’m your host, Derek Oswald, and today we have a special guest joining us, Matisyahu. Matisyahu is here to share insights about his latest EP, Hold the Fire, and we’re excited to have him on the show. Stay tuned for another great episode of the AltWire Podcast. I want to talk about your new EP, Hold the Fire. I understand that, especially Fireproof, is exploring the topics of your own perseverance and gratitude in times of trouble and also your ability to, you know, kind of keep your artistic fire burning even after two decades into your career. Can you tell me a little bit more about that song and how you keep that fire burning after all this time?

[Matisyahu] (0:52 – 3:22)
Sure. This song is based on a dream that I had several years ago and it’s just something that stuck with me over the years. I was in some kind of synagogue in the Middle East, in some kind of ancient times in my dream, and I was playing with a baby tiger.

The mother tiger saw and started shooting fire out of her eyes at me and I became engulfed in flames. And then I looked down at my hand, I realized I wasn’t burning like the burning bush. You know, I had learned some Torahs about the burning bush that were pretty cool, like a fire that doesn’t consume itself.

And that’s the fire that God speaks from, speaks out of. And who’s the one who meets the burning bush, who gets to hear God from within that fire, which doesn’t consume itself, is Moshe, Moses, which means literally drawn from the water, as he was drawn from the river after the death of the firstborns was mandated by the Egyptian Pharaoh. And he was thrown into a river and then, you know the story if Pharaoh’s daughter ends up saving him from the river, he grows up inside of Egypt as a prince, you know.

So I looked down at my hand and I see that my hand’s made out of water. And that became like the image that stuck with me, which was basically, if you have the balance, then you can continue to keep the fire lit. You know, if you have too much water, the fire will go out.
It’s easy to drown and it’s easy for the fire to get caught up in the wind. All these different winds are blowing, you know, that can blow it out. So how do you keep that flame like really burning?

You have to like, when I was a kid one time, I was on like a wilderness treatment kind of program when I was like 16. And I was doing like a solo, like a vision quest in the woods. And you know, we had to have a fire in order to make food.

So it had started raining and in order to keep the like, to keep the fire burning, I had to like really add lots and lots of wood to it, right? And like get this huge fire going. And at some point it was like this fire could start a forest fire, right?

But so anyway, it’s easy to let the fire go out. That’s the easiest thing. And it’s also kind of easy to just like build this raging fire that ends up consuming everything in its path.

But in order to have the flame, like the candle burning and staying lit, that’s the trick. And that’s the idea there of the EP and of that song in particular, but really of the entire body of work.

[Derek Oswald] (3:22 – 3:37)
And what I find interesting about that retreat that you talked about, you have talked in the past about how it kind of started your journey into the man you became today. Can you talk about what drove you into that in the first place and then your journey back to your roots?

[Matisyahu] (3:38 – 6:25)
Yeah, I mean, that experience was very intense being out in the woods and being having to do for yourself. You know, at that point, I dropped out of high school and gone on Phish tours. I’d eaten a lot of acid at a young age, and I was kind of a little bit in the clouds.

I remember the first day of that wilderness camp thing. They were teaching everyone how to make a fire with flint and steel, you know, so that you could cook. And they were teaching everyone how to put up their tarps, you know, so you could stay dry.

And while they were doing that, I was kind of just like I wandered off up onto this mountain and to like meditate, you know. And then I came back down, it started raining. And I remember the therapist there just sort of gave me an apple and a look and was like, you know, this is what you’re going to eat tonight because no one’s going to make the fire for you and you’re going to be wet, you’re going to be cold, you know.

And so on that trip in particular, I learned how to do for myself. And that final moment where I was just talking about with that fire, you know, I was been by myself for three days. And I was, you know, dancing around this fire in the rain in the woods by myself, you know, and kind of like communing with some very primal, divine spark, I would say.

And then I was sitting under my tarp with dry clothes and made made my my little fire and I had my lentils and I had saved like a little bit of cheese and a little bit of sausage. And I made myself a nice little a nice little meal. And I’m just sitting watching the rain in the woods around me and hearing the raindrops over me.

And probably at that point, I realized, you know, some to find content, to find happiness, it requires simple things and the ability to do for yourself. And that was like you said, that was a definite like start to my journey. And then eventually ended up coming back to New York and trying to pursue music and not really knowing how I was going to bubble up.

How was I going to get a record deal? Or how was I going to going to do it? And just felt overwhelmed by that.

And I started praying. And at that time, I felt very lonely and kind of isolated in a big city, concrete jungle. And I just started praying to God for some kind of connection that I was looking for that I wasn’t finding with human beings or with the world around me.

And that kind of led me into this place of sort of turning my back a little bit on the world and entering into the discovery about who I am as a Jew and what that means. And I ended up really going pretty far with that all the way to Brooklyn into yeshiva and staying and studying there for a couple years, all leading up to Matisyahu.

[Derek Oswald] (6:25 – 6:47)
One of the things that I kind of feel and I would like to get your opinion on this, I kind of feel like the world would benefit greatly if the leading religions treated each other as teachers of their respective subjects rather than rivals of theology. How do you think that religions can learn from each other to enrich their own spirituality? How do you think the world of music can teach the world of organized religion?

[Matisyahu] (6:48 – 8:05)
The religions, I think like a lot of the main world religions, they basically say the same stuff. And, you know, if you look into like Sufism in Muslim and then the Kabbalah in Judaism, like the mystical traditions and each of these things are different flavors, basically saying similar things. So it’s enriching to know more about other religions.

It helps you know more about your own religion. And if you’re a person of God or a philosophy or religion, it only makes sense that you would want to understand all of the religions. And that would give you a broader sort of palette.

Music is something that just goes straight for the heart and religion consists of belief. It consists of rules, discipline, ideas that have to be understood. Music is more of a straight line to the source.

It’s an experience. I think music helps religion in the sense that it opens people up to having potentially a divine experience. And then when someone has that kind of spiritual experience, they want to do something with it.

So they might search for it again and again, like by going to music shows. But eventually, as you mature, you start to look for a more full experience, mind, body, spirit. And so that’s when I think we’ll start to dive into religion a little more.

[Derek Oswald] (8:07 – 8:20)
I’ve noticed and I’m sure you’ve noticed as well, there unfortunately seems to be an uncomfortable rise in anti-Semitism and bigotry. What is it like to navigate that turmoil from the perspective of somebody of the Jewish faith?

[Matisyahu] (8:20 – 9:13)
Well, I think it’s important to speak out. I think be vocal, not be afraid, not hide, you know, say what you believe. And we’re seeing very brave souls, warriors of our generation that are going to war so that we have a homeland so that if the anti-Semitism turns into what it always has in the past, whether it was in Nazi Germany or in Russia with pogroms or in the Inquisition in Spain, since the beginning of the Jewish people’s existence, we have a place to go that can defend itself.

And a lot of people are uncomfortable with that. But as Jews, it’s something that we need. And if we have young men and women that are fighting for that, the very least we can do is speak up ourselves and also try to use them as examples and not be afraid.

[Derek Oswald] (9:14 – 9:24)
One of your most well-known songs, One Day, expresses a hope for peace and understanding. How does that vision connect to your thoughts on the ongoing conflict between Israel and Palestine?

[Matisyahu] (9:25 – 9:56)
Well, it’s still the vision. The vision is an idea of a world of peace where somehow all of our issues, all of our pain and suffering gets unraveled, it gets unknotted, and we’re able to coexist together. You have to have that dream.

If you don’t have it, I don’t know what life looks like without it, to be honest. For me, it’s always something that is the guiding light, that that’s what you’re going for. Now, how do you get to that?

There’s all kinds of discussions and differences and arguments and all of that. But the vision itself is pure.

[Derek Oswald] (9:57 – 10:10)
Obviously, you have been doing this for about two decades now, and the music industry has changed dramatically in that time. How has your music and your artistic process evolved with the digital age?

[Matisyahu] (10:10 – 11:46)
Well, in the past, if you’ll notice, there’ll be long gaps of time between my albums, like three years, four years, even five years. And it was always something that bothered me, like there’s a time for writing, and then you’re writing, and then you’re recording, and then you’re making a record deal and getting the art and doing all these different things. And it’s taking months and months and months, if not a year, could take a year or more for the album to come out.

And by that point, you’ve kind of moved on. If you’re an artist like myself, I’m listening to new things, I’m having new experiences and processing things differently, I’m already on to the next thing. And there’s nothing better than to write a song, share it with the world, and perform it in real time.

And that’s kind of like the upside to the industry and how it’s shifted. And it’s definitely the direction that I’m going in now as well in terms of releasing songs and just going to be releasing songs regularly, like every month, basically. It’s good for business, and it’s good for staying connected and relevant to your fans.

And I know for myself, I want to hear new music all the time too. So I feel like as artists that we used to be taught that there’s sort of like a limit on what we can create and how much we can create. And I kind of adjusted that in my head and just said, well, let’s just let go of that idea.
And just imagine that there is no limit, that you just have this kind of fountain of creativity inside you. And you can work with other fountains, super talented and creative people. So rather than keeping it all for yourself or whatever, spread it out and work with lots of different people, create all kinds of stuff and release it.

[Derek Oswald] (11:47 – 11:58)
And having this freedom to release music as you see fit instead of doing these long gaps, like you said, how has this reignited your spark as a musician? How does this help your creativity?

[Matisyahu] (11:58 – 12:34)
Well, it’s nice because you can be creative all the time. It’s not like I used to sort of like block things off more, like there’s a time for touring and that’s when you’re like grinding out and like being creative on stage live. And then there’s a time for for doing nothing.

And there’s a time for just soaking in music and writing. And then there’s a time for, you know, actually creating it. So, yeah.

So now it’s like you can just be creative and you can write at any point. You know, you can be writing music on the road, you can be recording music on the road, you can be doing it, you know, all the time. There is no separation from the creativity.

The creativity is like constantly flowing.

[Derek Oswald] (12:34 – 12:54)
One of the most beautiful things about your self-titled 2022 album is just the absolute change in your life now that life has kind of found its way for you. How are you feeling now in your life with, you know, being remarried with kids? How is life now for you?

[Matisyahu] (12:54 – 13:45)
I mean, I’m a father of young kids again, so I feel like I’ve been a father of young children for 20 years now. I have older kids that are like my 17 year old is on tour with me right now, helping out and with social media and the little kids. But also he’s performing.

He just released a song and he’s performing it. So I get to sort of mentor and kind of coach the older kids. And then the younger kids, you know, are just like so much fun and they’re stressful and it’s hard.

But I have like a very full life, you know, with a lot of people in my life, a lot of people that I love and they love me. So, yeah, I kind of definitely moved away from being in my 20s and feeling totally separate from everything to to now feeling a purpose and responsibility, people that count on you and feeling grateful for that, you know.

[Derek Oswald] (13:46 – 13:54)
Just to kind of wrap things up here, what are you looking forward to the most this year and what are your plans for the year ahead and beyond?

[Matisyahu] (13:54 – 14:25)
I’m really looking forward to just the release of this new music, playing the new music. I’m on tour like, you know, 34 cities were just started. Night one was last night, so night two tonight.

They’re reconnecting with the fans and kind of like getting a temperature for where people are at and where they’re at with the music, playing, performing and releasing all these songs that I have that I feel really good about. In particular, that song Ascent, I feel excited about that video. I think it’s going to be really powerful moving for people.

[Derek Oswald] (14:31 – 14:55)
Thank you for tuning in to the AltWire podcast, your source for engaging conversations with music’s brightest talents. This podcast episode is produced from our studios here in Reading, Pennsylvania, and is the official podcast of AltWire.net. We appreciate your support and encourage you to subscribe to our podcast on your platform of choice and feel free to share your feedback with us on altwirepodcast.com.

Again, I’m Derek Oswald and thank you for listening.