Episode 15 – Hopeful Sign – Ryan Key of Yellowcard

[Derek Oswald] (0:05 – 0:54)
Hello, and welcome to the AltWire Podcast, your go-to source for in-depth conversations with the brightest stars in music. I’m your host, Derek Oswald, and today we have a special guest joining us, Ryan Key of Yellowcard. Ryan is here to share insights about their latest album, Hopeful Sign, a collaboration with the ambient artist Hammock.

We’re excited to have him on the show and stay tuned for another great episode of the AltWire Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. I do want to say what a privilege it is to be chatting with you.

After your initial breakup in 2016, for many of us, it kind of felt like Yellowcard was over for good. What inspired the decision to reunite for Riot Fest and a subsequent anniversary tour? And what made this moment in time feel right for you guys to bring it back?

[Ryan Key] (0:55 – 1:34)
Well, thank you, dude. And first of all, let me say that you’re, you were not alone in thinking that we all thought that we had reached the end of the road as well. It’s very, very final with, you know, no plans to ever do anything again as a band, much less everything that we’ve done in the last year and a half.

I mean, it’s just it’s pretty unbelievable. And it started with Riot Fest, as you mentioned. And we have someone that works with the band that is pretty unique to the music industry to have someone that is a partner in your business for as long as she’s been.

But we’ve had the same booking agent since 2001.

[Derek Oswald] (1:35 – 1:35)
Wow.

[Ryan Key] (1:36 – 5:05)
So our first officially booked tour where we knew the doors would be unlocked and there were tickets being sold for it.
And we weren’t just going to show up and then have to play in someone’s garage because it wasn’t a real show or whatever. You know, our first real tour was in 2001 with Rise Against and the Mad Caddies. And our agent, her name is Corey Christopher Martin, booked that show.

And, you know, she had her own little shop called Fierce Talent at the time. And now she is a vice president at Wasserman and has an entire wing of people that work underneath her. And so she has always been a part of Riot Fest, who’s part of, you know, the formation of it.

She’s from Chicago. And so there’s there’s she from Chicago or just lived in Chicago? She’s going to kill me because she’s like so Orange County to but in San Diego, she’s such a SoCal person. But anyway, she has strong ties to Chicago. Let’s say that I apologize, Corey. And so this show came together and people asked us a lot this question, like, what made you decide to get back together and play a show?

And I’m in a phase we are in a phase where I think hopefully it’s a permanent phase of where, you know, just being an open book is really important and kind of being open with fans and talking about where we are in our lives at this point. And to be fully honest, it was the biggest guarantee we’d ever gotten to play a show by more by more than double. And we were so blown away.

You know, some of us in the band weren’t speaking to each other at the time and hadn’t been since the band ended. It was not it didn’t end on a it ended on a very high note for our for us with with the fans and their experience. But internally, as a band, it did not end in a positive way.

It was really sad and heartbreaking and, you know, surreal to walk away from it after all that time. So we had some internal things going on and this got the phone ringing. I mean, it’s just like, you know, at the time I was at the very beginning of what the relationship with now my wife and mother of my son, who was just born two months ago.

But at the time, you know, Sean had two kids and Ryan Mendez, you know, his wife was working super hard and she has an amazing job as as an architect. But she was as many people are digging her way out of school, you know, out of university. It’s like you get an offer like that and you have to take it seriously.

You have to put the past behind you and at least have a dialogue because it’s what’s right for your family. It’s what’s right for your future. And it’s an opportunity that whatever differences, you know, we’ve had with each other, with the music business, with, you know, our experience in it, that all has to go away when you get an opportunity like this.

And we were certainly sitting there thinking that that’s what we were doing. You know, I was we were I was thinking, again, I was had been touring and playing music and I was planning on continuing to do that outside of Yellowcard. But I really did have a sense of thinking about the other guys, thinking about Sean and his family and thinking about Ryan and his wife and how huge this would be for all of us as as a family and for their families.

And it made it easy to open my heart and mind to the experience and to like, how do we how do we make this right and and move forward? So, yeah, that that that was the what we thought was just a door opening. And it turned out to be more of like, I don’t know, a warehouse like sliding door opening because what followed has been the single most
successful chapter of our already long career.

And I just can’t believe it.

[Derek Oswald] (5:05 – 5:09)
Before I continue, congratulations, by the way, on you becoming a father.

[Ryan Key] (5:10 – 5:14)
Thank you. It’s so fun, man. He’s the best.

I’m having a blast.

[Derek Oswald] (5:15 – 5:35)
And it’s kind of interesting because listening to a hopeful sign, I do feel like some of these songs take on a whole new meaning with the changes that were done to them. A lot has changed for you over the past two decades, including becoming a father, revisiting some of these songs with the wisdom that comes of age. What do some of these songs and the album as a whole mean to you now in 2024?

[Ryan Key] (5:36 – 8:24)
Well, I think the thing that means the most to me is, you know, getting to work with Hammock… Hammock has been a really important artist for me, specifically getting through that final chapter of Yellowcard, not being in a very good mental place. Hammock is medicine for your brain in so many ways. It was such an escape for me during that time to sort of just be on my own and listening to hammock records.

And I was new kind of newly a fan at that time. Josh, our bass player, who’s one of my closest friends in the entire world, knew that I was into the genre like that. I was into ambient post-rock stuff, you know, artists.

But for whatever reason, the first time he mentioned that I should get into Hammock, it just didn’t I didn’t either didn’t do like I didn’t go check it out or didn’t stick. I don’t really remember. But somehow it came back to me, you know, in 2014, 15 and then into that final tour.

And I was just down the rabbit hole and just obsessed with their music. And so I think what the record means to me the most is or the most meaningful thing about the record to me is this just unexpected, incredible collaboration that I never imagined, you know, I would be a part of or that Yellowcard would be a part of. But to your question directly, the songs that I think you kind of nailed it, they just they have completely new meaning.

You know, Mark told me… Mark Bird from Hammock told me that some of the songs that are deeper cuts, like that they would have never heard. So a song like Waiting Game or a song like I don’t know what’s another one that maybe transmission home, you know, some of the songs, they just didn’t go listen to them. They didn’t go.

They made they forced themselves to not listen to the original version of the song so that they could really just have complete freedom to do what they wanted with the vocal track that I sent them because that’s all I did. I gave him a piano and a vocal and and I I said, do do whatever you want. And I do say I and not we, because this project started long before yellow card was to return.

We had no idea that that was I mean, it was going to be a William Ryan Key Hammock release. And it just evolved into so much more. So I think all the songs have this new weight and, you know, one that’s really obvious, but it’s fun to talk about is Ocean Avenue.

That’s the song is this version of that song. It’s it’s so heartbreaking and sad and it’s about loss and and, you know, leaving it’s like. Leaving this happy time, this positive time in your life behind and it just I think it hits different when it’s presented this way.

The lyrics are the same in the more pop rock version, but that one feels fun and summery and exciting. And this one is just like ripping your heart out. And it’s amazing that it’s the same song.

[Derek Oswald] (8:25 – 8:46)
That’s actually the first thing I noticed listening to it as well. Like, like you said, the pop rock version, despite having the same lyrics, its summary kind of feels like somebody reminiscing over a fun relationship, someone that they cared about deeply. Whereas, you know, you listen to the new version and it’s like the person has lost that person.

And they’re looking back on a relationship that failed. It’s completely different.

[Ryan Key] (8:46 – 8:50)
Yeah, that’s what Hammock will do to you, though. They’re just they’re heartbreakers, those guys.

[Derek Oswald] (8:51 – 9:09)
You tear at your heartstrings. One of the things I want to talk about you, just like in your last answer, you’ve been very vocal about your struggles with mental health and how in this case, music has helped you cope and heal. How do you take care of your mental health both on and outside a tour?

[Ryan Key] (9:10 – 13:28)
Yeah, so when I talk about mental health, I do want to say that I’m not someone who struggles with, you know, clinical depression that needs to be medicated. And I have, you know, so much respect for the people in my life and people that I don’t know that that are that have to deal with that and those those circumstances, you know. But I do definitely suffer and struggle, suffer with or suffer from struggle with a lot of anxiety and insecurity and stress.

I can get I can let myself get very overwhelmed and go to a very negative place, which can very get you can affect the people around me in a very negative way. I didn’t have the best reputation early on in my career for, you know, encounters with with fans or other bands. Or I was I was so wound up in my own head about the experience of being sort of catapulted into the success that we were so quickly and the responsibility that that became with that.

And I made a lot of really irresponsible choices, some, you know, like physical choices I made to do a thing that I shouldn’t have done, some mental choices where I would let myself sort of stay in this state of stress and anxiety and being shut off, shut down and closed off to the people that I love and people that were supporting the band fans. And, you know, it was a really strange time and it’s been a long journey to understand that side of of my mental health and and know that those were the, you know, the emotions and the feelings that I was struggling with back then. So for me, I like to talk about it because I do feel like that’s a very common thing, those of us that don’t, you know, struggle with the worst kind of clinical depression, which is, I mean, that’s, you know, the kind of mental health that is a different conversation from this.

But I think it’s very common for people to struggle with with anxiety and let their daily life put more stress, more stress on them than is necessary. And it can be very unhealthy. I lived for my entire, you know, from I started touring in 99, 2000 and stopped in 2016 with the band.

I spent almost those that whole 15, 16 year period with a sinus infection on tour. And it wasn’t because I have a bad immune system. It’s because I was so stressed out and tense and that I that gave me a weak immune system.

And I have the most concrete, good example of knowing that that is the case because I did this summer tour this past year. The band was in the best place we’ve ever been. Our relationships are stronger than ever.

We are focused. We are determined. We were the energy is so positive.

I didn’t get a sniffle the entire tour. That’s never happened in my entire career. I sang every show.

I did not lose my voice once. I that’s never happened. And that to me is is clear cut evidence of the change, the shift for me in being more focused on my mental health and being more focused on taking taking a breath, man.

That’s as simple as that for me. I mean, it really is like we ask how I how I do it on and off the road. Meditation has become a big part of my life.

And I’m not as I wish that I had the fortitude to to literally do it every day. But I but I do it is a big part of my life. And on tour this summer, we had a little wellness lounge backstage and we literally meditated every single night before the show.

And those are the kinds of things you wouldn’t do when you’re 25 years old on the road in a rock and roll band that got that big overnight. You know, it’s just how fast can we go and how hard can we party? And let’s just we’ll figure it all out later.

And so, yeah, just taking the time to breathe and focus and exhale some of those some of that stress and anxiety, it goes so far, man. And and I’m I’m I feel really lucky, you know, that and grateful that I’ve been able to sort of figure it out again without without it getting to a level where I feel like I needed to be medicated or, you know, something like that. I feel like I’ve really found a way to center myself and work on just who I am as a person.

And and I owe all of it to my to my friends who have put up with my shit for 20 years and finally came around and sort of said, hey, dude, if you’re open to this, you know, I have a couple of friends who were if you’re open to this, I think, you know, meditation and some of these different practices might help and they were not wrong.

[Derek Oswald] (13:28 – 13:51)
One of the things that you said in the very beginning of your answer that I felt struck a chord, you’re talking about, you know, how some of your your colleagues struggle with clinical depression. One of the most beautiful experiences that I ever had with you as a musician, I was at the Chester Memorial concert in Los Angeles. That was a highlight of the night, your performance of Shadow of the Day.

I thought it was fantastic.

[Ryan Key] (13:51 – 13:51)
Thanks, man.

[Derek Oswald] (13:52 – 14:05)
Your paths of Linkin Park crossed multiple times.

You opened for them in Japan, played with them on Warped Tour. Do you have like a fond memory that you’d like to share of your experiences of Linkin Park that that maybe you haven’t shared before?

[Ryan Key] (14:06 – 16:32)
Yeah, I would say that that that day in Ventura, I was really, really nervous. Those types of scenarios I do, I really struggle with like live television performances and not to sidetrack from this answer, but another great example of sort of what I talked about earlier. When you can see and feel real results to the work you’re putting in, you know, with regards to mental health, we just played Good Morning America, which was a huge opportunity for the band.

And I swear 20 years ago, you know, in 2004 on the Ocean Avenue touring cycle when we were doing late night TV and those types of things, I could physically feel my throat just closing up on me to have to go out there and perform. And Good Morning America, I realized as I walked to the stage that I was not feeling any of those feelings. I just I was relaxed.
I was happy. I was enjoying the experience. You know, I was so grateful to be there.

It’s just it’s just different now. And, you know, I I do say a better late than ever. I mean, I don’t want to regret the bad decisions I made and all that tension and stress and anxiety because it’s brought me where I am now.

And it’s just the best, best chapter of my life. And so at Linkin Park, the show at Ventura, I was terrified, dude, I was there. I was just it was going to, you know, it’s the whole like, no, no, you’re singing lead vocals for the first verse and chorus.

It’s just you and that all file that all under all these insecurities I’ve dealt with for years with my voice and thinking I’m not a good singer. And it’s, you know, it’s something I’ve struggled with my whole career. I was just terrified and I wasn’t saying anything.

I’m not going to walk around backstage with the Lincoln Park guys and be like, I’m so scared. I’m so nervous. But Chester could just tell, man, he could tell something was going on with me.

And he walked over to me and put his arm around me and he just said, dude, you’re going to do great. You’re going to do great. We’ve never even he said we’ve never even been to work tour before.

We’re just as nervous as you are. Like we’ve this is a crowd we’ve never played for. And you’ve played for this crowd 12 times, 15 times.

They know you. They love you. We have to prove ourselves and you’re going to do great.

And it was just like for an artist of that caliber and that size that, you know, I know, I know him, but we’re not like texting each other. We’re not friends on that kind of level. And so for him to come over and take a moment like that with another artist, I think speaks volumes about the man that he was the person, the human being, really, that he was just a real light for everyone around him.

That’s what makes his loss so heartbreaking.

[Derek Oswald] (16:34 – 16:50)
And just to kind of wrap things up, because I don’t want you to be late for your next interview, of course, as you said, you guys are having the best relationship you’ve ever had as a band. Things are going incredibly strong for you. This new record is awesome.

Love what you guys did.

[Ryan Key] (16:51 – 16:51)
Thank you.

[Derek Oswald] (16:51 – 16:56)
What are your ambitions for Yellowcard going forward? Where do you see you guys going within the next couple of years?

[Ryan Key] (16:57 – 19:33)
You know what, man, that’s what’s cool is like we don’t have any and that’s not a bad thing. We’re not we’re not chasing it anymore. You know, when you have a song like Ocean Avenue do perform the way it did.

I think our our sophomore major label record was a pretty classic rock and roll stereotype of huge pop hit song second record. We need to prove that we can make rock and roll music and, you know, that we don’t belong on pop radio. We made lights and sounds and didn’t really resonate.

And whether we want to admit it or not, everything we did after that was was subconsciously at least chasing that time chasing Ocean Avenue. Right. How do we how do we capture that and put it in a bottle again?

And everything that’s happened for us now, we didn’t. And this is sound, I don’t know, I don’t know what the right word is, but we didn’t try to get any we didn’t we didn’t ask for any of this. We did.

We weren’t we weren’t actively seeking an amphitheater tour in 2024 or 23, excuse me, that was, you know, over ninety five percent sold out across the country. The biggest shows we’ve ever played in our career. We weren’t looking for that.
It just it just came to us. And so it’s hard to say what our ambitions are going forward, because I think this attitude we’ve had of letting each opportunity sort of present itself, make an educated decision together as a unit if it makes sense for our career and and for our personal lives and our families and and then move on to the next one. If it’s good opportunity, we take it.

And if not, we’re going to, you know, we’re going to be OK and we’re going to wait for the ones that make sense because towards the end, when we decided to split up in twenty sixteen, we were we we almost didn’t have that luxury. Because, you know, at the end of the day, we are trying to make a living here. It’s just what we do for a job, you know, right?
So mortgages need to get paid and kids need to eat. And we were kind of feeling forced to take every opportunity, every tour, every show. And we were so burned out and we weren’t really getting good returns on on the effort we were putting in.

And it was exhausting. And it just took all the joy out of it. And now.

Somehow that joy has returned and it is it is informing every decision we make. And so I think the best thing to say as far as ambition is my my my hope for Yellowcard is no matter how long it lasts, if it’s one more year or six more months or 10 more years, is that we stay positive. That’s my biggest dream for the band, is that no matter what, collectively, we’re able to hold on to this positive energy and this this positive connection between the four of us that we’ve really never had before now.

[Derek Oswald] (19:39 – 20:05)
Thank you for tuning into the Altwire podcast, your source for engaging conversations with music’s brightest talents. This podcast episode is produced from our studios here in Reading, Pennsylvania, and is the official podcast of Altwire.net. We appreciate your support and encourage you to subscribe to our podcast on your platform of choice and feel free to share your feedback with us on Altwirepodcast.com.
Again, I’m Derek Oswald, and thank you for listening.